Slide into the "Electric Slide" debate

Admin Age : 57 Joined : 21 Feb 2007 Posts : 743

Hi,

For a while now the 'origins' of the dance commonly known as 'The Electric Slide' have been questioned. The music, the steps... even the choreographer have been questioned.

It would be interesting to hear what other people make of this... besides the 'who cares' and 'it was too long ago to worry about it' brigade (but what if it was them - change their tune then wouldn't they..).

The debate has quite far reaching implications ... as it may also effect a few things (and Choreographers) in todays (certainly since 2000) Linedance arena

Its lengthy... so make yourself a coffee and grab a biccy Laughing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Electric_Slide

Subject: Re: Slide into the "Electric Slide" debate Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:49 pm

Well, it was actually tea & half a pack of biccys for me but thats beside the point!! Very Happy

Im finding it hard to have any firm opinion on this. On the one hand, I absolutely agree that a choreographer is entitled to full credit for a dance he/she has written. However, if it was me, I wouldnt waste my time & energy on fighting it.

If this chap stepped back for a second and looked at the bigger picture (someone point him in the direction of one of the Line Dance Messageboards!) he'd realise that dancers/instructors are crying out for more beginner dances like Electric Slide. Maybe his time & energy would be better spent by choreographing more great dances?? Question

But if he really needs & wants the credit for this dance, and feels that he'd be letting himself down by not persuing this, then OK.

To be quite honest though, I hope this issue dies off before it gains any momentum. I dont want unneccesary 'politics' and legal issues ruining the Line Dance industry.

Jen

Admin Age : 57 Joined : 21 Feb 2007 Posts : 743

Hi...

'Beginner dances like 'The Electric Slide'????....' Going off Ric Silver's own site you will find the 'original' (and the one he is fighting over) dance.

I dont think that particular dance could be deemed anything but Advanced/Theatrical/Exhibition.

As for 'politics' and 'legal issues' within Linedancing - methinks they are already here.

ps... what were the biccies.. Smile

Prima Donna Age : 48 Joined : 04 Dec 2006 Posts : 126

I can understand why anyone would want to be credited for their work, especially if the work turned out to be as successful as Electric Slide. Just like in the music industry when they go legal about who wrote what. But I assume the difference here is you choreographers don't seem to protect your work. I've never heard of a dance being copywrighted for instance. I've often wondered how you gain (other than by reputation) from a successful dance.

Chicken salad for me - it's lunch time flower

Admin Age : 57 Joined : 21 Feb 2007 Posts : 743

Hi,

Going off the 'link' it's is quite apparent that there is a lot more to this that just credit for a dance.

I have my own opinion about the origins the dance and also of Ric Silver. As for the music - 1976??? Laughing

- that goes without saying. There are a great number of unanswered questions within Ric's story.

Dances if and when they do become popular are copywritten.. but not in the way that some people may think. Its a long process - but can and often be done.
There is an unwritten but very closely guarded and watched over rule within Ballroom and theatrical works of dance. One does not take credit for somebody elses work - but as dances and routines are infrequent they are quite easy to spot if they are indeed 'copied'.

Another quirk within Linedancing.. is the fact that they are very very few Choreographers. There are lots of Instructors who also become Choreographers who also become/are DJ's (?). But hardly any Choreographers within their own right.

Subject: Re: Slide into the "Electric Slide" debate Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:14 pm

Oh no youre absolutely right, politics & legalities are already present!
I just dont want them to dominate the line dance scene! I have too much fun, doing what im doing, to get bogged down by petty politics or worrying about issues that have quite frankly been blown way out of proportion.
Yes, as a choreographer, I feel an empathy towards this chaps situation, and I hope he gets the outcome he's looking for. But if it was me, i'd just let the matter slide (no pun intended!)

And they were caramel crunchies!! Smile

Prima Donna Age : 48 Joined : 04 Dec 2006 Posts : 126

I’m still not sure how you gain ‘financially’ for writing a dance. Say you write a song, every time it gets played on the Radio, TV, etc someone (usually the writer) gets a royalty. When the song is sold, either CD, internet etc if it’s a legal transaction then ‘someone’, might just be the record company, but ‘someone’ gets some money for it. Royalties can get paid for years and years can’t they? But if you choreograph a dance it can get danced all over the world every night in countless socials and classes and you don’t get a penny.

I assume you can become very well known as a popular choreographer and make a living that way. Making appearances, doing tours, making dance DVDs etc, but any old Tom, Dick or Harriet can take your dance can’t they?

What’s more you have to hope that the instructors up and down the land will teach the dance they way you wrote it. A good dance badly taught can be lost forever. You’ve got to market it yourself haven’t you? Get it typed up, issue it, get it on the internet. (Luckily there are websites and forums like this lovely forum to help you, eh.) And even if you are not a fan of LD magazine or UP Country I should imagine most choreographers want to see their dance in there, don’t they? But if someone puts a poor video on the LD website, again it could knock any chances of the dance taking off.

I suppose if someone was putting on a show and was using a dance you created you could get paid for that. But is it likely? Does that happen?

Hope I’m not too far off topic folks.

Admin Age : 57 Joined : 21 Feb 2007 Posts : 743

Hi,

Some really good points raised and brought about so far.

"..But if someone puts a poor video on the LD website, again it could knock any chances of the dance taking off".. yeah, totally agree with this statement.. it could certainly knock it sideways.

One of the things that Ric Silver appears to be looking for is some form of recognition for creating the very first dance (along with The Bus Stop) that started the whole line dance thing and got everyone doing the same thing at the same time. If you look at the original dance you will see that only a very select few (in reality if any) would have been able to perform the dance.

As was also said in the previous posting....Financial rewards... I suppose they do come in many guises.
You write a dance-the dance is a hit (maybe Worldwide)-Tour-maybe you also get to do other lucrative work created on the back of that dance. Who knows?.. I suspect the people who book some of the known Instructor/Choreographers would know the fee's being charged.
... but I wouldn't like to be in anyone's shoes if it is found out they didn't write the dance(s) in the first place. But quite honestly, knowing that a large proportion of the linedancing fraternity prefer 'not to get involved' they will allow those little indiscretions - even if they have duped/conned a great number of dancers/Instructors/club owners etc etc.

If the 'show' is on the stage,tv or a film then the Choreographer should have been contacted beforehand and if used a mention with the printed or telecast credit at the very least.

Web-sites have been a blessing not only to Choreographers but also to Instructors (in their own right) and dancers. There is no such animal as 'too many dances'.. because if you go off the charts (?) there are only about 20/30 Choreographers in the whole country.. Very Happy

....

...oooops.. running off the thread somewhat.. sorry.

Dance Diva Age : 46 Joined : 16 Jan 2007 Posts : 92

Dance Diva Age : 46 Joined : 16 Jan 2007 Posts : 92

p.s. if you can bear it - watch it until the final 15 seconds - his final 4 walks forward make me smile!! LOL Very Happy

Admin Age : 57 Joined : 21 Feb 2007 Posts : 743

I have seen a lot of that particular Instructors teaches on YouTube.. he has helped promote quite a lot of dances and choreographers.
His style may be different (but not unique) to some.. and he certainly gets the job done. There is another Instructor, based in the UK (and on YouTube) who has the same styling. He dances only the top name choreographer dances.. and you don’t the choreographers of the dances he promotes complain/laugh about him.. just the opposite in fact.. and that’s always a good sign - isn't it.

Whilst diverted onto the above subject there are a couple of recent examples of The Electric Slide shown on YouTube... and not a bit like the dance RC has placed on his web site.
Anyway...back to the thread... any other thoughts on the Electric Slide anyone????

Dance Diva Age : 46 Joined : 16 Jan 2007 Posts : 92

i wasnt complaining about him Mike - I loved finding ANYONE dancing my dance on youtube - but he does make me smile with his technique! theres no point in me saying i didnt think he was funny - cos i still think he is!

but then a lot of things make me laugh Mike as you know - can i help having a warped sense of humour? Cool

sorry to go off topic!! OFT

back to the Electric Slide

does anyone still dance it with the 1&2&3&4 instead of the normal grapevines anymore? i was taught it the shuffly way - but changed it to normal grapevines when i started teaching - much less hassle ... fun

Admin Joined : 03 Dec 2006 Posts : 410

I thought the youtube video was brilliant. How flattering to have him pick your dance. I like the walking forward section - could get some really good prissy steps in there.

good girl

Admin Age : 57 Joined : 21 Feb 2007 Posts : 743

ahhhh... Prissy Steps... done two or three dances with those in (one pretty recent). Only sober (line)dancers can do 'em... you try it when past thw 'bit tipsy' stage... Very Happy

Blimey... Ric Silver's 'problem' has now gone Nationwide in America.. and also WORLDWIDE.

He has gone on national radio in America saying how upset he is that people are doing his dance wrong.. to top that he has DEMANDED YouTube remove the offending (wrong) dances. And id THAT aint bad enough... (he says) he is taking the writers and performers of the original song to Court as well.
Now a short while back I was slated and told I was a stupid fool and didn't know what i was talking about when I stated that 'posters on message boards can find themselves being sued for libel'. A short while later it was proved (in all national newspapers) that what I was saying was correct. And no... I did not recieve an apology ..I am deemed never worthy of one..lol... ya gotta larrrf)... And...in Ric silver's particular case..

1. PUBLIC DOMAIN. Silver claims he choreogrpahed the dance in 1976, but didn't get a copyright until 2004, 28 years later. He waited too long to protect his work. Now, the dance moves are public domain. Like the old saying goes, "you snooze, you lose".

2. NO COPYRIGHT INFRINGMENT. Silver has been requesting youtube.com and the like to pull down video clips of people "incorrectly" dancing the electric slide. To pursue a proper copyright infringment claim, Silver should attempt to take down video clips of people doing the electric slide "correctly" becaue he allegedly has a copyright on the correct way to dance the electric slide. Again, no copyright infringment here.

Politics comes in many forms.... the need for financial gain and 'stardom' is a great motivator to some people.

just thought i would 'update' the debate/discussion.

Admin Joined : 03 Dec 2006 Posts : 410

Your right Mike you can get done for what you write on a message board, and so could the owners of the board, for providing the vehicle to right slanderous stuff.

So watch yourselves you lot - I'm already poor!!!! affraid