Slide into the "Electric Slide" debate

Admin Age : 57 Joined : 21 Feb 2007 Posts : 690

Many things have happened from the time of the last posting - Besides Ric Silver also resorted to removing the ENTIRE Wiki thread (see previous posting) whilst leaving HIS version of events intact...

Many of you will will have heard of Peter, the owner of the dance site kickit, his latest report on the matter is posted below:-

YouTube Videos
FROM: peter@kickit.to

If somone requests a video be removed, YouTube removes it immediately.
No questions asked. It is then the duty of the video's owner to try to get it put back onto YouTube. There is a "counter-notice and put-back"procedure you can use to have it restored to YouTube, which can be seen here: www.chillingeffects.org/dmca512/faq#QID132

A video of someone dancing to someone else's music possibly falls into the realm of "fair use", which is described here:
www.chillingeffects.org/fairuse/

In February, Mr. Ric Silver had YouTube remove all videos that had the words Electric Slide in their title or description, claiming that they infringed on his copyright by showing an 18-count Electric Slide, even though he claims he choreographed a 22-count Electric Slide in 1976.
The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) stepped in and had those videos restored to YouTube. If Mr. Silver tries the takedowns again, he faces major penalties of both time and money. His website has subsequently taken a much kinder, gentler turn, and he now seems to recognize that his 22-count dance was left behind many years ago, and the line dance world moved on without him. After years of being pestered by Mr. Silver,
we can now thank the EFF for helping clear up the problem.

There is no reason for line dancers to be afraid to post videos of
themselves dancing to pre-recorded music. Learn your rights at
[url]chillingeffects.org[/url] or at [url]eff.org[/url]

Admin Joined : 03 Dec 2006 Posts : 402

I just don't understand what he hoped to gain with all this nonsense Rolling Eyes

Admin Age : 57 Joined : 21 Feb 2007 Posts : 690

"..I just don't understand what he hoped to gain with all this nonsense.."

Fame!!

...but he didn't have to make such a 'song n dance' about it...lol

Subject: Re: Slide into the "Electric Slide" debate Wed May 23, 2007 9:42 pm

Admin Age : 57 Joined : 21 Feb 2007 Posts : 690

Sorry (but not really.. Evil or Very Mad

) for resurrecting this thread.... BUT....you aint gonna believe this which I have just cut n pasted from Silvers site...

"...In my latest dream - and I should tell you that I do not dream - or if I do I don't remember them - but If I do remember it - IT ALWAYS COME TO BE!!!!!
My latest dream - God spoke to me and told me that He was pleased with my life and that I would be the last person to be uplifted in the tribulation and he wants me to dance thru the pearly gates....... and he wants me to do The Electric.
When I dance thru the gates of St. Peter doing The Electric, those joining me will be able to get in with me - and those doing it incorrectly will fall by the wayside - So - I would hope that you all learn it correctly -

In my dream, I was in horror as I saw people falling into pits of fire and being sliced down by blades because they didn't get the steps right - did you ever see the movie "The Pacifier" with Vin Diesel where he is babysitting and has to learn a dance to put the baby to sleep - and come to find out - it is the steps needed to get to the father's secret lair......... Just a warning! ...."

Well!!... that just about says it all doesn't it....
_________________
Stay bright - Stay happy, Hold on to your dreams

Glory Seeker Joined : 15 Feb 2007 Posts : 338

Be afraid......be VERY afraid...... affraid

Admin Joined : 03 Dec 2006 Posts : 402

Oh come on Mike - tell me you made it up Shocked

Admin Age : 57 Joined : 21 Feb 2007 Posts : 690

With my hand on my shake

.... nope... if you nip onto his webshite you will see for yourselves.

Also he is starting to harass dancers again.... which is against the spirit of the May 2007 agreement to which he was a party to.

Oh... did you know... on the YouTube 'Black20 News' vid.... he actually and REPEATEDLY does his own dance WRONG.

21 Left forward with 1/4 turn left
22 Hop onto left foot with right leg in the air to start again

check out 'his' counts 21 - 22 on the vid...

Now isn't that 'hop' incorporated into count/step 21.

He is now claiming to have been a 'professional choreographer' since 1972 - and yet he cannot get basic timing correct.

Also... on one of his vid clips (by the way...all 'his' vid clips appear to show the dance as a 21 count - not 22) within the posts he goes on about how he visualised his dance 'originally' as a'la contra. This 'contra' version has been doing the rounds for a long LONG time as a way of releaving the monotony of the dance.
_________________
Stay bright - Stay happy, Hold on to your dreams

Admin Age : 57 Joined : 21 Feb 2007 Posts : 690

http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/000404.html

The article is text pasted below. I have only highlighted certain areas that I hope one day will be pursued – VIGOURSLY.

Jason,

While I appreciate your interest in the lawsuit and the passion for your legal position, I wish you had reached out to us here at EFF before speculating on the good or bad of the settlement. I get emails all the time from folks who are curious why we do what we do at EFF and I would have been happy to answer your concerns if you had written me. I'll do it now, but just for future reference, don't hesitate to drop us a line if you want to engage in this sort of debate.

As to the merits of your critique, I think you might have misunderstood the terms of the settlement.

NO WHERE IN THIS RESOLUTION DO WE CONCEDE THAT RIC SILVER HAS ANY COPYRIGHT IN THE ELECTRIC SLIDE. And as you correctly point out, one leading commentator (and several additional cases that we'd uncovered that I'd be happy to share with you) suggest that social dance steps that are not part of a dramatic storytelling are not copyrightable subject matter.

AS SUCH, WE WERE MORE THAN EAGER TO PROVE IN COURT THAT MR. SILVER HAD NO COPYRIGHT TO THE DANCE, AND WE WOULD HAVE DONE SO IF WE HAD BEEN GIVEN THE CHANCE.

The "problem" arose after we filed our suit when Mr. Silver quickly and immediately capitulated from his earlier threat against Mr. Machulis. He made it clear that he no longer thought our client's video was infringing and was willing to withdraw any allegations of infringement regarding its use. When a copyright owner does this in litigation, it can potentially kill the case. Cases in Federal Court require under Article III of the Constitution that there be a "case or controversy" between the parties -- an actual dispute for resolution. Since Mr. Silver had withdrawn his accusations of infringement, his attorney could have argued that the issue of copyright infringement (and thus copyrightability of the dance itself) was no longer present. Moreover, his willingness to then promise the world (via the Creative Commons license) that he would no longer threaten any non-commercial user for performing it essentially guaranteed that he would never again abuse the copyright system against our client or anyone else under these facts.

So what about commercial use? Well, as I mentioned, we would have been more than happy to take Mr. Silver to court over this issue and challenge his copyright. However, courts do not take kindly to parties who manufacture disputes in order to seek court rulings when there is no real dispute between them. In this case, there is no indication that Mr. Silver will be sending any more take-down notices or threatening folks like yourself for performing the dance, even commercially. To have pushed on that issue in front of the judge when there was no clear and actual threat to our client or to any other identifiable individual would have posed a serious risk to the credibility of both our client and EFF. At best, it would have encouraged the court to dismiss our case out of hand (with no settlement and no CC license) and at worst, it could have lead the court to find some way to rule against us to teach us a lesson for wasting its time and judicial resources. As Officers of the Court and public interest advocates, that's just not a risk we're willing to take, either on our own behalf or that of our clients.

Moreover, it is important to remember that we are a non-profit with limited resources. The Machulis v. Silver case is hardly the only case we're fighting at the moment. We have also been heavily engaged in copyright battles with Viacom, UMG Music and Uri Geller, battles over warrantless surveillance with AT&T and the DOJ, Patent Busting, FOIA work, etc. Thus, given the unlikelihood that a court would have ruled on the copyrightability issue (let alone issued a precedental ruling in our favor) and the high cost of litigating such issues, we felt we could do much more to help our clients and the public via the settlement, which ensured victory for our client, 100% litigation-free use of the dance for all non-commercial users, and strong support for Creative Commons, an organization in which we believe strongly, and at the same time freed up our legal team to focus on other cases and issues which deserve just as much attention.

That said, I can completely understand your frustration with the thought that Mr. Silver might come back and threaten someone who performs the dance for commercial purposes or lacks attribution.

HOWEVER, I HONESTLY THINK WE'VE SEEN THE LAST OF MR. SILVER AND HIS CAMPAIGN TO GO AFTER ANY KIND OF INDIVIDUAL WHO PERFORMS HIS DANCE, EVEN FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES. IF HE DOES, THOUGH, PLEASE DO NOT HESITATE TO GIVE US AT EFF A CALL OR SHOOT US AN EMAIL. WE'D LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO FINISH THE JOB.

Sincerely,
Jason Schultz

Electronic Frontier Foundation

To cut to the chase... what they are saying is... they believe that RIC SILVER DOES NOT HAVE ANY COPYRIGHT AT ALL FOR THE DANCE 'THE ELECTRIC SLIDE'....

...and I will go one further as I have always believed.. it is VERY doubtful he even choreographed the dance in the first place. [lots of striking similarities of a 'then and now'- and not just genetic - in the Linedancing Choreography World)

By the way.... you wont read about THIS in any dance journals....far too negative.
_________________
Stay bright - Stay happy, Hold on to your dreams

Joined : 31 Jan 2007 Posts : 33 Localisation : NORFOLK

cor blimey wheres me can of spinach!