Those Line Dance Charts

Admin Age : 57 Joined : 21 Feb 2007 Posts : 743

Love 'em or loathe 'em... I personally take them with a MEGA pinch of salt... a lot of Instructors use them (some say, blindly) as a 'guide to whats being danced across the uk/World wherever'.

There have been many debates about how inacurrate they can become by simple 'slight of hand'.. or as some say.. 'multiple voting'.
Some question as to 'just how many people have voted for the 'The super duper everybody is dancing it number one'.

Here is just one persons rather open (and quite honestly factual and brave) review.

Taken with no edits from Carol Cravens brilliant World Line Dance Newsletter. You can add YOUR top 8 dances onto Carols International chart simply by joining up... and its FREE.

"As a relatively new dancer, I just must add my few pennies worth to the vote debate that is raging about new dances jumping straight to the Ivy League...... May I preface this by saying that I have the utmost respect for the choreographers so this is in no way an attempt to be disrespectful.

Take the voting on Linedancermagazine.com, for example. As of now, the number 1 dance has been decided by 38 people. That is, 38 who are subscribers and take the time to vote. Of all the dancers internationally who dance regularly/visit the website/organise events /dj etc, only a miniscule number are deciding which dance holds the hallowed top spot.

Now, I am no mathematical genius, but it doesn't take Will Hunting to determine that the vote is therefore not representative of the views of all dancers. The vote is being skewed by, amongst other reasons, the fact that one must pay a subscription in order to have their voice heard. A truly democratic vote (driven by a love of dancing and not profit) would be a vote that was open to everyone - such as the voting on this newsletter.

I am an extremely keen dancer, but I am already saddened by what appears to be the rampant politicking of a hobby I have come to adore. Dances that win international choreography awards are missing from the top ten week after week, whilst others seem to automatically assume the top spot. The trend towards fast and furious dancing seems to be winning over choreography that is respectful to the music by giving the dancer time to interpret and communicate its story. Personality/PR/flavour of the month is winning over substance.
This newsletter and it weekly vote is an important neutral ground upon which choreography should be judged on merit - please don't let it be hijacked by the personal agenda of a minority......KERRY "

Don't know about you... but this Kerry has got it spot on. Well done that girl.
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Admin Age : 57 Joined : 21 Feb 2007 Posts : 743

and the discussion still goes on......

"Kerry Was Right !!

I use to subscribe to the magazine, cancelled the subscription when I noticed that 75% or more of the published monthly dances came directly from the UK or associated countries, featuring almost exclusively UK choreographers. This publication is extremely discriminating toward the USA choreographers with the exception of 2-3 who they just can’t ignore.

BUT, 70% of the “Blast From The Past” dances came from the good old USA . And if you keep track, you will also notice that they are even selective within their own group. On one list of their supposed top 100 dances in the world, the top (25) contained (11) dances from only 4 choreographers, and they were all from the UK .

Seem a little strange? Not at all when you consider this publication has attempted to manipulate the rating system for many years now. I am just so happy that someone else has seen this too. Like Kerry said, do the math. Does this add up? With all the great dances world wide, does this add up? The answer is simply NO!

Michael Beck

and a reply from 'Kerry'

"Hi Michael

Thank you for your comment in support of my previous posting re votes.

I'm not so sure people don't notice - I just think that it suits some people not to challenge wrong doing, either because a) they lack the confidence to express their own opinion for fear of reprisal, or b) because they are personally benefiting from the way the current system works.

As Ms Daisy said - the real tragedy is when good people do nothing....

Cheers,
Kerry
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Admin Age : 57 Joined : 21 Feb 2007 Posts : 743

My own feelings on this matter are that Linedancer Magazine changed the ‘format’ regarding voting to one of subscription only - fact. And whilst this may appear ‘unfair’ to many non subscribers, it showed that Linedancer had grown a conscience.
For a long time (at least 5 years that I am aware of) they either knew though emails or the Linedancers own message board that discrepancies (for want of a better word) within the voting led to some rather bewildering conclusions… and (to some) surprising inclusions or the same Choreographers appearing time after time.
It took them a long time (some would say ‘far too long’.. and why) to answer the call.. but at least with the ‘subscription only’ they have gone some way to eradicate the misdemeanors of those in the past. What has happened now is, mainly through the apathy of the genuine voters (and who could really blame them) only a very small portion of ‘subscribers’ bothering to vote. A good number of those who do vote it could be said are ‘fan club based’ and in a couple of the cases at least.. are related to the Choreographer.
Linedancer Magazine is forever asking people to vote.. and good on them, but people do have memories (though certain groups do not like that idea one little bit) and it may take them a while to realise that their vote WILL count. People who know me, know that I will always give credit where it is due (even to my own detriment)..and in this case Linedancer magazine deserves credit in trying to get together a chart that maybe not a truly Universal chart at least it is an 'honest' one... it just needs more voters (and I mean hundreds).
Instructors (doesn’t matter if they vote or not) only see the charts – and NOT how they are made up.. to be honest, they possibly couldn’t care less (which makes it more important for more people to vote).
Its perplexing when they say… ‘I NEVER look to see who has choreographed a particular dance – if its good – I’ll teach it’… strange then how the same names (no matter what their latest dances are like always maintain positions in the charts.. and if these very same instructors use the charts for ‘inspiration and guidance’ for their teaches, then they don’t HAVE to check who choreographed the dance anyway.

And before anyone states 'oh, you are only saying that because you are a choreographer and that uour peeved 'cos you have not been 'in the charts' '.. true, I am a Choreographer and even if I Choreographed a dance that the WHOLE World was doing - it would be truly amazing if it ever got into the LD Charts - it certainly would never be published... but that’s another story.
I am a Choreographer.. just a Choreographer.. and one who does not sit on the fence. The only ‘fans’ I have to be worried about meet up every Friday 13th in the telephone kiosk at the top of the street where I live.

I don’t care who or what dances are in any ‘Charts’ that any group or journal wishes to publish – only that those dances are there by MERIT and voted by ‘individuals’ beyond peer pressure.
I DO object to those same groups or journals who strut around proclaiming that theirs is ‘the most up to date, comprehensive, as voted by blah blah blah’ Charts.. and the only Charts that everyone should talk about and look at… and choose from. And yet only have anything from 25 to 40 votes proclaiming which is THE top dance which EVERYONE (sic) is doing (or should be doing).
All charts can and are open to abuse, be they subscriber based or open vote. As it has been stated many times, one has to rely on peoples honesty and integrity - But people being people and they wanting somebody and/or a particular dance to lead………sometimes will ‘switch the light on to show the way to enlightenment‘ – for what ever reason.
We ain't going to eradicate it completely, but we can at least try and minimise its corruption… and use our ‘votes’

anyone else got any comments on this matter.......then tell us - on here
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Admin Age : 57 Joined : 21 Feb 2007 Posts : 743

LINEDANCER MAGAZINE CHARTS VOTES
FROM: editor@linedancermagazine.com
We would like to explain a little about our voting system so hopefully people dont get the wrong idea.The reason that only paid subscribers can vote was so that we can show who is voting and what they vote for. In the past when anyone could vote whenever they wanted the abuse was disgraceful. We stopped that by only allowing those who subscribed to vote in the Linedancer Magazine charts. It effectively stopped the old pals act and vote rigging .. More importantly it prevented abuse from those who 'gave' nothing 'took' everything and 'manipulated' the results.

At least this way, with one vote once a month, we can create an accurate chart albeit based on those who are prepared to put their money where their mouth is.

Just as I said previously... though.."...prepared to put their money where their mouth is" not quite the phrase I would have used.
I have had a couple of emails regarding the fact that I have given Linedancer some credit - concidering what they put me through etc etc. The answer is simple - unlike Linedancer.. I dont have an 'axe to grind' - I'm not their enemy as such.
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Admin Age : 57 Joined : 21 Feb 2007 Posts : 743

...and the final word from 'Kerry'..????

May I just thank the editor of Linedancer magazine for clarifying the voting procedure, and the reason the voting has been restricted to fully fledged, oath swearing subscribers.

I am still unsure how not allowing all users to vote guarantees it is isn't skewed. Surely all users being allowed to vote but with IP addresses logged to ensure they can only vote once is just as effective? How can the magazine ensure that choreographers aren't actively encouraging class members to subscribe and vote for them? But, having said that, it would make commercial sense to foster that environment.

I really appreciate the fact that this newsletter doesn't allow choreographers to vote for themselves. One dance in the LD mag charts, for example, registered in the top 50 with 4 votes: 2 of those votes were the choreographers responsible! This in itself suggests that the system is still flawed but, apart from Mary Poppins, nothing is practically perfect in every way. Perhaps LD mag should think about a) banning choreographers from voting for themselves b) making subscribers nominate their dance teacher when they register, and ban dancers from voting for them. This may be a more secure way of avoiding the problems associated with the current system, and would, perhaps, ensure a more accurate vote.

and this bit is uncanny... well maybe not if you were 'dragged up right' - Tiggs

Must say that I am particularly affronted by this comment "....... we can create an accurate chart albeit based on those who are prepared to put their money where their mouth is." I believe this is a) unprofessional b) insensitve as perhaps people may prefer to spend their money on a dance class c) based on the assumption that because someone doesn't subscribe they don't purchase the magazine from an agent on a monthly basis. It is my sincere belief that the ed should retract this comment. I will now find better uses for my money than purchasing the magazine.

Apologies if my blunt comments have caused offence, but I do not apologise for expressing my opinion....I'm afraid nobody puts Kerry in the corner.......
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